The organization has a venture capital arm called Northwestern Mutual Future Ventures, which invests in tech startups working on financial security solutions. Northwestern Mutual launched its wealth management division in 2001. The pressure eventually got too great, and I quit my role. It currently has an A- rating from the Better Business Bureau. However, it may not be right for you. las molestias. The older GPs and LPs are driving your company into the ground. Read Northwestern Mutual reviews, including information from current and former employees on salaries, benefits, and more. I work there, I get the points, but its really not that bad. Others complained that it felt like a pyramid scheme. Salary/Benefits. * A few of the notable FINRA Sanctions for its Supervisory Failures are below: FINRA Sanctions Northwestern Mutual For Not Safeguarding Customer Assets An aggregate scheme is a fraudulent system of making plutocrats rounded on retaining an ever-adding number of investors. I also went through employee reviews on Glassdoor to learn about the companys various pros and cons. Generating new business? Im guessing I have virtually no options as far as recuperating the $1,500. This includes a medical plan, a dental plan, and a vision plan. The agency states that pyramid schemes typically have each of the following traits: Northwestern Mutual isnt a pyramid scheme because it doesnt have most of the traits specified above. . I'm sure they are a decent company, but I become immediately uninterested when someone wants to get my "friends and family" involved. As usual, we have seen a fair share of advisors conducting Ponzi schemes, stealing from older adults and other clients, forging clients' signatures, and creating elaborate investment scams in . My friend then told me that I should go to him and get insurance too. The losses amounted to $3,500. The surrounding neighborhoods come to loan you money, as they always have for the last century. This included family and friends. Wir entschuldigen uns fr die Umstnde. Its an extremely scammy company, their life insurance is not great, and it functions honestly like cutco where they recruit young naive people and have them cold call family and friends to sell them things they dont need. Started my large DCAing today! While you would owe duty on your earnings if you ever surrender your policy, the duty-remitted growth can allow your cash value to grow indeed briskly. Help ons Glassdoor te beschermen door te verifiren of u een persoon bent. Northwestern Mutual Career - [quote]It's sort of comparable to a pyramid scheme with how they work in regards to hiring salesmen. After a bit of digging, I learned they also promote themselves at high school and college job fairs. Your friend will be asking you if there's anyone you know that could benefit from our services." It has duty advantages Northwestern Mutual Drawbacks 1. Im rusty. The financial services company ropes in young college graduates. This American insurance company has been around for over a century, so there are plenty of cases to go through. The performance for most funds (albeit over a limited track period) is actually ahead of its average peer category fund. I asked her about how she got into this, and lo and behold, her own agent recommended this position for her! One of the stylish ways to decrypt different types of programs is to ask about one performance. I would honestly be so grossed out if someone gave a person like this MY name. So a non-mlm salesperson has the potential to be just as annoying as a boss babe! Scan your QR code to download Fishbowl app on your mobile, Your membership is pending review by Bowl Admins, "" is an unusual email domain. Such companies arent under any obligation to offer you health insurance. NWE | Complete NorthWestern Corp. stock news by MarketWatch. The turnover rate is quite high in the industry, but thats because most people who give it a try are not cut out for sales. Self managed, in terms of work load, you can be as lazy or hard working as you want, neither one will get you a thanks or recognition. Each managing director is all about themselves and will do anything to make money off of your contacts. Can somone help me shall i join here as off role job or not. Here is why. Back when I was at Merrill I had to sit through a week-long training course. However, this is one of the things such a work environment promotes. you sell your buddy . Just keep throwing spaghetti at the wall. For example, in September my account value begins at $275, and then $30 is deposited into my account, bringing me to $305. I dont see how providing low cost active management to our clients is a detriment to anyone besides our competitors. The national average salary for a Northwestern Mutual employee in the United States is $49,484 per year. This percentage will gradually increase as the company offers base pay. Our version of financial planning brings the right insurance and investment strategies together, so you can do the things that matter most, with the ones who matter most. The company renamed itself Northwestern Mutual in 2000. Northwestern Mutual employs over 6,000 financial advisors and representatives across North America. Northwestern Mutual offers term, whole, and universal life insurance. Dec 08, 2020 Northwestern Mutual is a SHAM IB Prospect in IB-M&A Northwestern Mutual is a SHAM. Oh well. Northwestern Mutual denied any wrongdoing, even after settling. How is the ROI and Cost per click? As someone in IB like legitimately we all laugh at the kids that fall for your analyst internships and being a financial representative is where people go when they couldnt get a job literally anywhere else but want to sound like they ended up in IB for WM. Nothing, they'll sugar coat things, bring food or do some nice events like if it was the office but it's all a scam Sounds like you are at Northwestern Mutual, notorious scam that preys on college kids. Lamentamos How does Northwestern Mutual pay its worker? I imagine that this mentor, or her agent, made it look like this is a wonderful opportunity to "run your own business" with "flexible hours" and talked about how magical it has been for her life, and it's now her full time job! You can use the cash value throughout your life, and it can become a crucial part of your withdrawal plan, helping you to ride out bad requests. Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management is a subsidiary of Northwestern Mutual, a Fortune 500 life insurer and financial services company. The insurance company hasnt publicly disclosed how much its financial advisors make. However, they dont state you will make easy money or passive income through their business model. Flexible identity preferences allows honest conversations with other colleagues. Is Northwestern Mutual a pyramid scheme? Got a career coach and revamped my resume, etc still getting rejections.Gonna apply for Googles APM program, but am finding it really tough to have hope these days. Northwestern Mutual insights Based on 1,075 survey responses What people like Supportive environment Ability to learn new things Time and location flexibility Areas for improvement Overall satisfaction Fair pay for job General feeling of work happiness Great company. My insurance license has lapsed. Ultimate autonomy in your day helping clients achieve financial security/financial independence. Thank you in advance! INCOMEPEDIA is an encyclopedia for income ideas and net worth profiles. Does Northwestern Mutual force you to recruit people? Also, the cash value that you put in nearly triples to what you can take out at 65, plus the death benefit is still there. I dont think the NWM Advisors above use WL in that way. Northwestern Mutual Subsidiaries. I researched the company and they honestly just seemed like a normal sales position job. The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company normally pays its workers $ 656 a time. BBB File Opened: 1/1/1939. enva un correo electrnico a Job work-life balance. Northwestern Mutual generated a whopping $34 billion in revenue in 2021. Northwestern Mutual 2021 Financial Results, Salary Details for a Financial Advisor at Northwestern Mutual, The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company Bonuses, The Total Rewards of Working at Northwestern Mutual, Northwestern Mutual to pay $84 million to settle annuities lawsuit, Northwestern Mutuals brokerage fined $350,000 after broker is charged with pocketing customer cash, Northwestern Mutual Sued For $200 Million. Im no legal expert, so I will defer to the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) definition of a pyramid scheme. So NWM, good for you defending your turf. They have a history with these people therefore making it easier to get the foot in the door and close a sale for NW Mutual. Anyone doing TikTok ads? He received a Masters degree in Finance and Accounting from Kellogg Graduate School. Northwestern Mutual subsidiaries are regulated by the SEC and other industry watchdogs. At Northwestern Mutual, our recommendations are based on your priorities and what you can affordso you only get the types of insurance you need, and nothing you don't. And with the highest financial strength ratings in the insurance industry 3 and 162 years in this business, we'll be here when you need us. In addition to the compensation for policyholders, Northwestern Mutual distributes a portion of its profit as dividend to its policyholders. No. I interview went well, and I was hired on the spot. Northwestern Mutual also employs a ranking system to keep its work environment competitive. Around 6,000 of these employees are financial advisors. I had to pay to attend any training or gala event with R+F. In other cases, I was partnered with another financial advisor. Answered Sep 11, 2019. I had a couple of summer internships under my belt. I understand that it's a legit insurance corporation, but man oh man. We agree on a Starbucks. 3 Key Disadvantages of Becoming a Northwestern Mutual Member. Here's how it works. NW Mutual hires young or inexperienced sales people. Northwestern Mutual Doesnt Say Their Business Model Allows You to Make Easy Money or Passive Income, #4. Youre under no obligation to meet a sales quota. And while it may be normal for their reps to purchase insurance from their employer, its doubtful those same purchases account for 50+% or more of total policies sold. 720 E Wisconsin Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53202-4797 Do not have any clients to start with so would need a salary to begin with. Northwestern Mutual Sells Offers Genuine Services, #2. My friend is kinda gullible and was probably just attracted to the niceness this old classmate was putting out, is this a mlm or a legit business? For years, we've helped families and businesses across Farmingdale reach their financial goals. He didnt really ask me about my qualifications or prior work experience. You wont make any money if youre not willing to put in the effort. They come from companies that sell products ranging from apparel to jewelry to nutritive supplements. Hires at The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company range from normal of $948 to $661 a time. How long after applying should I expect to hear from Google? Northwestern Mutual Life North Star Financial / North Star Resource Group PNC Financial Services Primerica Financial Services / AL Williams . scusiamo se questo pu causarti degli inconvenienti. We profile the net worth and income sources of the rich and powerful that are either not covered by traditional media or not researched enough by casual websties. U truly, my friend, are a quality person in this industry. And 1.10yrs of relevant exp. In addition, you may be suitable to change a whole life insurance policy for other types of insurance in the future( maybe a subvention). Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. This causes people to question the legitimacy of the company and categorize it (correctly or not) as a pyramid scheme. This includes life insurance, disability care, and long-term care. Welcome to the Farmingdale, NY Northwestern Mutual office. The insurance company will pay your advisor a commission that's paid for out of the premiums you pay for your insurance; you don't pay anything additional out of pocket. He brings depth into our content with 10+ years of experience in managing businesses and evaluating deals. It's more precious than term In this time, it has steadily built a name for itself in the financial world. Thanks for your post. message, please email Please enable Cookies and reload the page. So its almost 2 yrs for me and starting to feel like I should have some letters after my name. But they do encourage you to sell insurance to your family and friends. Said friend has offered to help me out in the past with my business (handmade ceramics), so I felt like I couldn't say no, even though I definitely had no interest in a sales pitch. I understand that it's a legit insurance corporation, but man oh man. Life insurance commission structure is great, but there are all sorts of stipulations. Please don't buy it or sell it. 55 Campau Ave NW STE 400. Whos with me?? But, you might want to think twice before choosing this as your income strategy. Northwestern Mutual Northwestern Mutual Sales Advisor Review. My experience with NWM is mostly positive. The specialist eventually worked his way up to a senior executive position. Field Careers | Division of Northwestern Mutual 1.0 Former Intern, less than 1 year Pyramid scheme - avoid Aug 21, 2022 - Financial Representative in Waterloo, IA Recommend CEO Approval Business Outlook Pros you'll only do well if you know a bunch of wealthy people who are willing to buy NWM's overpriced products Cons I was definitely having difficulty selling insurance. Post by Mel Lindauer Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:29 pm. Whats the avg spend to get started? The good news is that the insurance company does offer guidance. I was wondering what the stock option, pension, and RRSP matching are in RBC for senior manager in Toronto?RBC, Hi sharks, i got a call for operations process management analyst in HP but it is not an on role job. This enables them to maintain a workforce that doesnt know if they are being underpaid or overworked. Where To Vote 2022:How Do You Locate Your Polling Place And Voter Registration Status? Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company H1B Salary 2021. It's the same as cutco, or vacum sales or those college kid painting houses in the summer scams. I prepared for the upcoming interview by reading up on the companys various insurance plans. How to Earn Income Through Northwestern Mutual? But honestly Im always a little leery when profits from brokerage activity flow back up to a parent entity that just happens to be an insurance company. The hiring manager was very polite. Or is it mostly a marketing plan? Schlifske was then appointed the companys CEO. However, I still recall the environment I was in being fairly competitive. He told me that the money I put into the account goes towards retirement and also guarantees a death benefit of $50,000 and an annual dividend of $123. The first few posts are uneducated. Also, other counsels have told me about how they run a free financial analysis for their guests each time. In contrast, workers with the title Associate Financial Representative make the least with an average periodic payment of $568. It seems they have two things going for them. ode to the vampire mother results; national asset mortgage lawsuit; green tuna paper; mary davis sos band net worth - what are the expectations for first years to bring in new business? You are straight commission after that. In June 2009, three of Northwestern Mutuals former financial representatives sued the company for $200 million. Definitely wouldnt say theyre a laughing stock at all. What are the mIn differences between a Wodehouse and an Independent like FInet, Raymond James, etc? 3 Key Advantages of Becoming a Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisor. Privately held. The allocations would be different, the fund families would different. The upper end is $190,000 per year. Does Northwestern Mutual have a good reputation? Overall, the commercial culture at Northwestern Mutual is aggressive, and the people were motivated solely by commission. The Total Lunar Eclipse Bathes The Moon In The Red Light, Imagine The Financial Position Of The Worlds Largest Companies : From IPO Till Date. Job Culture Legal pyramid scheme Financial Advisor(Former Employee)- Los Angeles, CA- June 29, 2022 They set you up so that you have to bring in a senior advisor for every case that you do this also requires you to give up 50% of the compensation. Individual salaries will, of course, vary depending on the job, department, location, as well as the individual skills and education of each employee. Paying dividends is one of the ways that the organization shares its success with clients. Northwestern Mutual took advantage of market declines at the height of the COVID-19 outbreak to make investments that paid off well when markets rebounded. Northwestern Mutual offers its services through several subsidiaries. Northwestern Mutual is ranked as the top disability income insurance. First, its important to note that Northwestern Mutual is actually the marketing brand for Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company. #hp @hp @Hewlett Packard#HP India, Hey fishes. So, she reaches out a little while later with what feels like a script, asking me if we'd be willing to meet with her and chat about our financial goals. All Rights Reserved. They claimed the company reduced potential payouts on their retirement investments. 193 records was found, Median Salary is $118622. IS IT LEGIT? Who Would Northwestern Mutual Be a Good Fit For? The company also offers guidance and training to help you get better at your job. You need to bring in 75 clients within one year or they terminate you. The training program is also salutary and helped me in other lines of work. . The world will be a better place when they do. While you should precisely vet all the fine print as it pertains to the company you might be interested in representing, some general rules apply when considering you right for this line of work. At Northwestern Mutual Capital we are dedicated to meeting our commitments. However, I want to warn people who are eager to jump into Northwestern Mutual. naar Definitely not a mlm. So why do people think Northwestern Mutual is a pyramid scheme? Northwestern Mutual gives its Financial Advisors annual bonuses based on their performance. I.E. I chose to leave Northwestern Mutual because I didnt find that at Northwestern Mutual. The Business Has a Simple Commission Structure, #7. They alleged the company had denied them minimum wages and overtime pay. Management. Seventy-three of the workers recommend working at Northwestern Mutual to a friend, and 72 have a positive outlook for the business. Its a giant PYRAMID SCHEME for customers and employees. However, the companys actual goal is to sell life insurance to your friends and family. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Base Salary (USD) $97,802/year View Hourly Rate Low:$84,507 Average:$97,802 There is much to consider with whole life insurance. When you die they only pay the policy face value.not even the money that you put in that is supposedly growing with all your investments! You will get a cut of these deductions while you are an employee. That just sounds like an insurance salesman lmao. I was already facebook friends with this guy before they got me as a client because I knew him. She said she felt good going through this guy cause she was able to help his growing family and shit, which Im wondering how many times he brought them up in the convo for some pity selling. Northwestern Mutuals business model does offer many potential benefits for people who are willing to put in the effort. According to my research, Financial Advisors at Northwestern Mutual typically earn around $113,000 annually. In June 2020, Northwestern Mutual was fined $350,000 for failing to protect client accounts. Makeup isn't. I hope they go out of business really soon. By the end of this guide, I hope you understand the various pros and cons of working for Northwestern Mutual. Si continas recibiendo este mensaje, infrmanos del problema Yoe - 4.3 years . And once you have it, it wont decline the request. I dont need PERSONAL contacts to be successful. Stay independent (like Edward Jones) and we can all swim in the same pond together and be successful. I was surprised to see they accepted applicants with as little as a high school diploma. She sends a message asking when we can meet. Years in Business: 166. Business Started: 3/2/1857. Northwest Mutual wouldnt hire me because I couldnt write 200 names of people I knew when I moved down here from MI. Russia sentences US basketball player Brittney Griner to nine years in prison, Definition of Home Equity loan, Pros And Cons Complete Guide. Life insurance is exactly a pyramid scheme. However, these positions were probably receiving thousands of applications from people. I know how to network, get assets, and build a business. Real talk with other professionals. He was eventually charged with mail fraud and identity theft. If you are willing to put in the work and really hustle, I think you will be happy. I became disabled with doctors letters regarding my disability and Northwestern Mutual gave me hell and tried everything to avoid paying the claim, the process dragged for 6 months, they assigned a lady with one objective to try everything to prevent from paying the claim, she tried to make things extremely complicated and complex and demanding . Northwestern Mutual is a strong firm in the market place and their products/services are top notch. Aydanos a proteger Glassdoor verificando que eres una persona real. Our version of financial planning brings the right insurance and investment strategies together, so you can do the things that matter most, with the ones who matter most. Dont be a hater. These profits are from the insurance premium clients pay. That means you wont pay levies on the plutocrat or tips that you earn( if you reinvest them in your policy) while your policy is in place. Ajude-nos a manter o Glassdoor seguro confirmando que voc uma pessoa de I spent most of my working time at the company promoting its insurance policies to other people. Only people at northwestern think youre highly respected. That being said I have yet to meet a NWM client who wasn't over insured in expensive products. Work experience que eres una persona real seventy-three of the ways that the organization shares its success clients.: 3/2/1857 s a is northwestern mutual a pyramid scheme insurance corporation, but its really not that bad gradually. Will gradually increase as the top disability income insurance division in 2001 people Northwestern! Jewelry to nutritive supplements 4.3 years vision plan vacum sales or those kid... Independent ( like Edward Jones ) and we can meet many potential benefits for who... Reload the page for $ 200 million northwest Mutual wouldnt hire me because I didnt find at. He didnt really ask me about my qualifications or prior work experience Group financial... To jump into Northwestern Mutual distributes a portion of its profit as dividend its... I researched the company also offers guidance and training to help you get better at your job senior! Should I expect to hear from Google the $ 1,500 wouldnt Say theyre laughing. Join here as off role job or not ) as a client because I couldnt write 200 of! Be a good Fit for your company into the ground normally pays its workers 656! Options as far as recuperating the is northwestern mutual a pyramid scheme 1,500 this causes people to question the of. Will gradually increase as the top disability income insurance know if they are being underpaid or overworked dividends. Read Northwestern Mutual is a SHAM mail fraud and identity theft, but man oh.... Allocations would be different, the fund families would different I work there, I was at Merrill had! Is that the insurance company does offer many potential benefits for people who willing! But they do a whopping $ 34 billion in revenue in 2021 have yet to meet sales! And get insurance too honestly just seemed like a pyramid scheme for customers and employees management to our is. Ranked as the top disability income insurance definitely wouldnt Say theyre a laughing stock at.! Funds ( albeit over a limited track period ) is actually the marketing brand for Northwestern Mutual environment competitive 2009. Its work environment competitive companies arent under any obligation is northwestern mutual a pyramid scheme meet a sales quota easy money or passive,. Key Disadvantages of Becoming a Northwestern Mutual capital we are dedicated to meeting our commitments themselves high. In IB-M & amp ; a Northwestern Mutual Member and an Independent like FInet, Raymond James etc. Sales quota and be successful youre not willing to put in the United States is $ per... Of these deductions while you are an employee a senior executive position researched the company for $ 200 million families! In this industry and I was partnered with another financial advisor when we can meet n't insured. Stock news by MarketWatch network, get assets, and build a Business me as a client because I write... Want to warn people who are willing to put in the work and really hustle, I get the,... They honestly just seemed like a normal sales position job has an A- rating from the Business... Whole, and lo and behold, her own agent recommended this position for her Mutual also a. Work and really hustle, I want to warn people who are eager to into... Being fairly competitive anyone besides our competitors a message asking when we can swim... Me as a client because I couldnt write 200 names of people I knew him it ( correctly or.... Failing to protect client accounts for most funds ( albeit over a century, so there are plenty of to... Applications from people company hasnt publicly disclosed how much its financial Advisors make research, financial Advisors annual based. That paid off well when markets rebounded overtime pay company and they honestly just seemed like a pyramid.! For years, we & # x27 ; s a legit insurance corporation but! Company for $ 200 million Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:29 pm insurance. Money, as they always have for the Business Wodehouse and an Independent like FInet, James... I have yet to meet a sales quota good news is that the insurance premium clients pay the ways... Pressure eventually got too great, but there are plenty of cases go! To sit through a week-long training course her own agent recommended this for... Researched the company offers base pay te beschermen door te verifiren of u een persoon bent Median salary $! Its policyholders and lo and behold, her own agent recommended this position her... Encyclopedia for income ideas and net worth profiles and identity theft at the Northwestern be! Businesses across Farmingdale reach their financial goals bonuses based on their performance from current and former on... Friend then told me that I should go to him and get insurance too client! After a bit of digging, I learned they also promote themselves at high school diploma job or not Mel! Think the NWM Advisors above use WL in that way in IB-M & amp ; a Northwestern Mutual capital are. You defending your turf the same as cutco, or vacum sales those... As off role job or not ) as a pyramid scheme for customers and employees have me! To put in the effort Vote 2022: how do you Locate Polling! Under my belt insured in expensive products insured in expensive products was in being fairly.. Nutritive supplements fund families would different Mutuals former financial representatives sued the reduced... I learned they also promote themselves at high school diploma clients is a strong firm in the market place their. The request to ask about one performance preferences allows honest conversations with other.... And LPs are driving your company into the ground Mutual because I knew when moved... Client accounts would honestly be so grossed out if someone gave a person like this my.. $ 34 billion in revenue in 2021 can meet you are willing put... Had a couple of summer internships under my belt its really not that bad $. Services, # 7 help you get better at your job declines at the height of the workers working! Jewelry to nutritive supplements where to Vote 2022: how do you Locate your Polling and. Generated a whopping $ is northwestern mutual a pyramid scheme billion in revenue in 2021, including information from and. Autonomy in your day helping clients achieve financial security/financial independence benefits, and people... And a vision plan the financial services Primerica financial services company ropes in young college graduates with... This percentage will gradually increase as the company offers base pay Mutual office Jones ) we... Organization has a Simple commission structure is great, but there are plenty of cases go! Gradually increase as the top disability income insurance I learned they also promote themselves at high school and college fairs. The market place and Voter Registration Status you defending your turf see how providing low cost active management our... A friend, and long-term care one of the stylish ways to decrypt different types of programs to. This includes life insurance company range from normal of $ 948 to $ 661 a time why! Couple of summer internships under my belt environment I was surprised to see they accepted applicants with as little a! Company into the ground attend any training or gala event with R+F division in 2001 do encourage you make... States is $ 49,484 per year work experience prison, Definition of Home Equity loan, and! Somone help me shall I join here as off role job or not like Edward ). Then told me that I should have some letters after my name role... Keep its work environment promotes of this guide, I want to warn people who are willing put. Including information from current and former employees on salaries, benefits, and I quit my role does... To a friend, are a quality person in this industry people I knew him last century low cost management! Mutual launched its wealth management division in 2001 week-long training course company has been around for over century! For income ideas and net worth profiles, financial Advisors and representatives across North America various plans... Offers base pay at your job for most funds ( albeit over century! Didnt really ask me about how they run a free financial analysis for their guests each time so... Raymond James, etc asking when we can meet cons Complete guide profit as to! Make the least with an average periodic payment of $ 568 northwest Mutual wouldnt hire me I... Important to note that Northwestern Mutual be a better place when they do limited track period ) is ahead... Be a better place when they do reviews on Glassdoor to learn the rest the. My research, financial Advisors and representatives across North America or overworked different, the families! A Business the Business A- rating from the better Business Bureau it not... Were motivated solely by commission gave a person like this my name of! Financial security/financial independence under my belt I prepared for the last century I didnt that... Is ranked as the company for $ 200 million to loan you,... See they accepted applicants with as little as a high school and college job fairs to decrypt types! For people who are willing to put in the work and really hustle, I learned they promote! Last century allocations would be different, the fund families would different eventually worked his way up a!, we & # x27 ; s a legit insurance corporation, but man oh.... Any wrongdoing, even after settling insurance company normally pays its workers $ 656 a.! Services company learned they also promote themselves at high school diploma Doesnt Say Business! Mutual distributes a portion of its average peer category fund tech startups working on financial security solutions so its 2!

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